Er... dreamscarredpress.com/...t=781.html perhaps? =)

Syonique wrote:

Er... dreamscarredpress.com/...t=781.html perhaps? =)

Just saw that. ^^; So long as that actually got added, I'd be happy.

Kevin_Video: Why not view the Path Maneuver as a form of at-will 0th level power?

I think that the current method of dealing with low-level powers is a good compromise with 0 level powers. The thing to keep in mind is, powers are not spells, and psionics is not magic. I don't feel the need for 0-level powers myself, but I do see the need for low-level manifastations to match the free-use powers that most casters now get at low level that can make a real difference. The current system the guys have worked out is just fine.

I agree with Dabbler. Also please do not change the Psy War from it´s current beta incarnation, I love it as it is.

We are feeling pretty content with the Psychic Warrior as it is displayed here. Changes will in that case be more streamlining and perhaps an additional path.

They're the psionic equivalent of rangers and paladins, neither of whom get orisons. Why should the Psychic Warrior?

technically they are more mechanically akin to Bards. Thou flavorwise not so much

Frerezar wrote:

technically they are more mechanically akin to Bards. Thou flavorwise not so much

this is correct.

Average BAB. d8 HD. 6th level spells / powers. Caster / Manifester Level = Class Level.

The psychic warrior has always been mechanically closest to the bard, not the ranger or paladin. But the psychic warrior focuses more on self-buffs and combat, while the bard focuses more on party buffs and more of a support role.

This comes back to the whole question of 0-level powers at all. They were abandoned in 3.5 psionics for avrious reasons, and I'm happy to leave them that way. Bringing them back to me says that powers are like spells, and while there are similarities I don't see that they have to be. The only mechanical reason for bringing them back is that casters get unlimited uses per day of cantrips or orisons, and personally I think the 'free (low) power while focused' option on some first level powers solves this.

As requested by Mr Smith I am rewritting my concerns of the feral path here.

My main concern is that the damage boost they get at lvl 3 is too big of a leap, specially considering that most (if not all) feral warriors will be using claws of the beast.
This is not as much of an issue by itself, but it gets problematic when other natural attacks enter the fray, specially considering that bite attacks (fairly common) do not take an attack penalty. So we end up with 3 attacks free of attack and damage penalties that deal aditional damage based on their wisdom modifier. And on top of that they can be used while pouncing (which makes them even more likely to hit).

This can be solved in many ways. First, limit the extra wisdom based damage to natural attacks gained through powers. Second, give it a level based cap (equal to half psy war level would be nice). Third, replace the pounce ability for the maneuver with the ability to take a standart action at the end of a charge (which is pretty strong in PF).

as Dabbler said, if they want to pounce then use the power for it.

Casting my vote for a level-based cap. Also pointing out that Monk's unarmed attacks count as natural attacks, so they'd also benefit from this. Would not recommend limiting the benefit to only natural attacks gained from powers; that hurts anything with an innate natural attack like a bite or claws (which just seems silly).

Not so sure about changing the Pounce into "get a standard action", as that would enable you to do things such as combat maneuvers or spells-on-the-run... which really isn't what Feral Warriors do. As a possible alternative, however, one could have the Trance apply WisMod (no level cap) to a single attack per round, but have the Maneuver apply it to all attacks that round. That would make the Maneuver kind of meh by comparison, though.

Personally, I think Pounce isn't that overpowerful; I think of it more as adding a Move Action to your Full Attack, rather than adding extra attacks to your Charge. It's almost like the question of, "Which would you prefer, to Ready an attack for the enemy to charge in, then be the first to get a Full Attack after you've both exchanged single attacks? Or just eliminate the single attacks on both ends and jump straight into the full attacks on both sides?" Just personal observation.

I like the Beta Psychic Warrior because it allows some variety, and it much easier to make my favourite Psychic Warrior concept (Jedi). It just takes a few Expanded Knowledges to learn some Telekinesis.

And finding this place was the best birthday present ever! (Other than the Ibanez Iceman my fiance got me... lol)

Biggy's playtest campaign suggests that a PsyWar runs into some difficulty because the PsyWar is losing Focus rapidly; the current work-around seems to be to obtain multiple Foci.

Instead, perhaps a cue from Tome of Battle is in order: just as PsyWars have Trances while holding Focus, and can execute high-powered Maneuvers by expending Focus... perhaps there could be mundane Maneuvers that let PsyWars regain Focus and a specific Trance as a side benefit?

Perhaps there should also be a restriction that you have to start the turn without Focus, or perhaps not (without the restriction, it becomes a good way to 'switch' from one Trance to another).

For example:

If a PsyWar with the Ascetic Path takes the Total Defense action, he can attempt an Autohypnosis check as a Swift Action to regain Focus and Ascetic Trance.

If a PsyWar with the Assassin's Path successfully attacks a single enemy that would be vulnerable to Sneak Attack (flanked, flat-footed, etc.), he can attempt an Autohypnosis check as a Swift Action to regain Focus and Assassin's Trance.

If a PsyWar with Brawling Path ends his turn while grappling an enemy, he can attempt an Autohypnosis check as a Swift Action to regain Focus and Brawling Trance.

If a PsyWar with Feral Warrior Path makes a successful attack with a natural weapon, he can attempt an Autohypnosis check as a Swift Action to regain Focus and Feral Warrior Trance.

If a PsyWar with Mindknight Path makes a successful attack with a weapon gained through Call Weapon, he can attempt an Autohypnosis check as a Swift Action to regain Focus and Mindknight Trance.

If a PsyWar with Weaponmaster Path decides to Ready an attack with a weapon, he can attempt an Autohypnosis check as a Swift Action (immediately, rather than when the Readied attack goes off) to regain Focus and Weaponmaster Trance.

Just a thought. Might be TOO good, so maybe include a restriction like the character has to do it two rounds in a row (making it more like Tactical feats)... /shrug.

I think care should be taken not to make the psywar and other classes too good. The limitation of the focus can be overcome with feats to a degree, and that degree is sufficient IMHO.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this but having the PsyWar gain a bunch of untyped bonuses is very bad as that means they stack with EVERYTHING. all items, any spell or power buffs from other characters, bardic music increases, you name these bonuses stack with them. this is a very bad idea and by 20th level a fully optimized, blinged out PsyWar could gain hella increases to pretty much every combat stat.

Mr Monkey you bring up a very good point. the bonuses from the Trances/Maneuvers are ussually untyped (as well as the psionic feats now that I check). That is a fairly big problem.
On that note, of all the bonus types that would fit, I think Insight would be the best.

that was my initial thought as well. the only potential problem is that Insight also is the type used for many of the staple psionic buffs and i'm not sure if these bonuses are enough to warrant robbing a Psywar of the precog powers n other such boosts. mayhap circumstane or compentence for the Psywar buffs??

Competence sounds better to me, yes.

Anything that stops the Psy War from using it´s powers to buff itself kind of defeats the point. the only goal would be to stop stacking other things. Perhaps making a list of all the existing bonus types would be handy.