ok, but then you look at the classes, which have some of the most discussion regarding changes. If everybody agreed that those classes as presented were perfect it would be about 2-3 pages of everybody saying each class rocks.

However, there is a ton of debate. Look at how much has occurred over the SK. now let's say you implement some of the changes officially. so people play that SK and it sucks, for some reason. now you have a bunch of people coming back to say "hey! the SK was better before, now he's a lot worse, fix it!!"

I saw this happen with PF. not a lot, but classes got a lot of change, as did feats, as people actually played with them.

Quote::

now you have a bunch of people coming back to say "hey! the SK was better before, now he's a lot worse, fix it!!"

Anyone who comes back and says that obviously doesn't know what he's talking about >_>

Syonique wrote:

Quote:: now you have a bunch of people coming back to say "hey! the SK was better before, now he's a lot worse, fix it!!" Anyone who comes back and says that obviously doesn't know what he's talking about >_>

I have to concur. The SK Beta may have been 'awesome' but it was also terribly prone to abuse.

I was actually doing a comparison of ANY DSP SK compared to 3.5 SK...

LOL! Sorry, got our wires crossed, but you are correct. Myself I think the DSP concept of the SK is a better one.

your missing my point. We all see the SK fix in different ways. some want one thing, others another. Dab, u see the current SK Beta as overpowered, but as it stands, that's the Beta, it will be as is in the Beta release. or it will change based on the feedback we provided.

So ok, let's say it's kept exactly the way it is in the release, that shall continue to spark debate would it not?? or let's say it's powered down, but maybe a little too much, once it's actually played with the official version. than what??

my point is, we do not actually know what the Beta versions of anything will be. all of the threads, other than the SK are listed as Alphas. Will the PsyWar include some of the new paths we suggested?? what about it's capstone, will the bonuses be typed??, etc etc.

In my humble opinion, it is always better to present a class for consideration that is underpowered than overpowered. Overpowered and you will get told that it is broken, but some people will love it because it is 'awesome!' Underpowered and you may get moaned at, but you will get lots of constructive suggestions too.

But you are right, we'll have to see what DSP do with all the various options.

Trust me, I understand the concern, the point I'm trying to make is that a large, large part of the time that it's taken to get the Alpha done has simply been the volume of material to read through and correct.

The changes that we're talking about, while they may require a significant amount of discussion and thought, realistically don't take as long calendar-wise to make.

Consider this - the soulknife may require 2-3 days of actual design work, but there's another 150 pages of material that won't need to be touched, or only touched in very small ways that take 5-10 minutes. Most of the problem components of mechanics are identified within the first few days of being posted - it's not going to be a protracted time line to handle a couple classes, a few feats, and a couple powers. Most of the powers / feats / skills have been seen as fine as-is.

Seriously, you're underestimating how much of the Alpha time was spent simply digesting hundreds of pages of material for things to change and dealing with real life distractions, rather than the actual time spent on mechanical design.

As far as I see it - the Beta will allow us to finalize changes from the Alpha-stage. This will get a second look from most people, but as with Paizo, we tried the biggest changes in Alpha, will scale back or change for Beta which will feature fewer changes when going into full-scale "finished product".

We guesstimate that the Beta will take about 20% of the time and energy of the Alpha, just by it being "done" in terms of conversions. I expect that we will see some major playtesting and some changes before Final, but that these will be more minor than before.

Almost all monster mechanics are converted - just finished up all astral constructs. I have to check the templates and then go through the psi-like abilities to find anything that no longer matches, then it's off to proofing.

I just sent over Psionic Monsters for internal review.

Just sent 3 of the psion disciplines off for review for Beta.

3 more sent (and the original 3 have had feedback received and a couple tweaks made). The only one left is Clairsentience (generalist makes essentially 7 discipline choices)

So 3 classes are now in Beta.

I've sent the Beta version of the Psionic Items over to Andreas for review. I hope to knock out the psionic races over the weekend.

There are a couple things that need to be figured out for the Psion/Wilder powers and those will be ready.

The Wilder looks like it's going to take a little bit of time to go through all the feedback, but that's high on the list, as well.

And alphabetizing begins...

And alphabetizing ends...

Oy!

I'm in the middle of posting a few comments that are critical in nature, so I want to take this opportunity to say that overall I think you're doing a great job. Thank you for all your work!

Thanks!

And critical comments are important, so don't worry about offending.

Annnnd, just sent the Psionic Powers over to Andreas for review.

111 pages in total - that's all psionic powers - psion/wilder/discipline/psychic warrior.

I'll probably break it up in the same manner as the SRD - 4 documents - to post for Beta.

I sent over the Psionic Skills rules for Beta off for review. Hopefully will have those up this week.