A day late and a dollar short, I know, but I got sick on Tuesday night, so this got delayed...

Anyway, here's the psychic warrior beta!

It seems implied that any given psy warrior can only have 2 path powers at a time. Is that correct r am I reading it wrong? and if it is saying it outright might be good.

Another thing, for what I understand using your maneuver expends your psionic focus and ends your trance. In the case of the ascetic warrior wouldn´t it be counterproductive to use your maneuver if you have a high wisdom? (changing wisdom to AC for a +2 seems odd) If the intention was that it is in addition to it´s normal bonus then having it stated would be nice.

Everything else looks just plain awesome, consider the book sold to me just for this. If anything solely on the dynamic battles that i can picture between the immediate 5ft step related maneuvers and the oponent´s step up (or your own´s)

I like this a lot. The Warrior's paths are no longer restrictive in any real way, the class gains some much needed abilities, and generally ... it works for me!

I do have a few niggles, though:

Assassin's Path Maneuver isn't worded very well. It looks to me like maybe it should instead be a sneak attack, with all the advantages and disadvantages of sneak attack, and maybe inflicting more damage? (I would suggest 1d6 + 1d6/3 levels).

Ascetic Path: I would suggest a proviso in there for monks taking levels of psychic warrior maybe getting a different Trance (as I can't see any DM letting them get their wisdom bonus to AC twice)?

And of course I will bombard you with additional paths when I think of some!

looks nice

a little cleanup though:

you're missing an 'is' in the warrior's path ability (last line of the first paragraph under that heading), twisting path has an 's' after it's '(ex)' that probably shouldn't be there, and the description should probably use his/her instead of 'your' (so far, it looks like the pronoun of choice is 'his')

definitely looks like it'll make the class more interesting

Small error:

Quote::

A 1st-level psychic warrior gains no power points for his class level, but he gains bonus power points (if he is entitled to any), and can manifest the single power he knows with those power points.

I think that no longer applies, since the psychic warrior now gains 1 pp at 1st level.

Very happy with this. One of the PCs in our playest campaign is doing Psy-War they will be wetting themselves. The paths now really add flavour without restriction. We''ll see how they go in playtest after Christmas.

Frerezar wrote:

It seems implied that any given psy warrior can only have 2 path powers at a time. Is that correct r am I reading it wrong? and if it is saying it outright might be good.

This version was mostly Andreas, so he'll have to confirm, but I believe it's a matter of you only get two path powers known as additional powers. You can take the other path powers are part of your powers known. But the initial two path powers are in addition to your basic powers known.

@Sheng: I have no idea how three of us (myself included) missed that, but you're quite right.

@Dabbler: Regarding Ascetic path and monks, I know I'd allow it. They're multiclassing, and therefore losing access to some pretty cool stuff (especially with PF capstones). A double Wisdom boost to their AC (which only applies w/o armor, since monks can't wear armor) doesn't seem that bad.

That's reasonable, although feats like Tashalatora mean they don't miss out on quite so much <evil grin>. It might be worth stating it clearly, though.

Just converted my 3.5 fighter/psywar/warmind into Pf using the alpha warmind and this awesome beta psywar.
The result is everything I could have expected, better manifesting, better attacks (not as much damage due to the power attack nerfs) and is actualy better at tripping (mostly due to adding WIS to my trip attemps with the chain).
At any rate I can´t express properly how pleased I am with this beta document.

Pathweaving lets you use it once per day at 15th, then an additional use per day at 18th and 'every third level after that'? That would be 21+, or Epic. Not sure if that was intended to be mentioned there or if that second clause can be cut.

Echoing and clarifying the point raised above: when a PsyWar goes from Trance to Maneuver, exactly when does the Trance benefit wear off (ie. immediately, at the end of the Maneuver, at the end of the turn)?

- Ascetic Path demonstrates this most clearly (do you get both AC bonuses simultaneously?), and needs additional clarification: how long does the +2 Dodge bonus itself last (single attack, until beginning of next turn)? Also, is the Wis bonus a flat untyped AC bonus that applies even when denied Dex bonus, such as flat-footed or Helpless?

- Assassin's Path: the fact that it's precision damage does mean that anyone immune to Sneak Attack should be immune to this precision-based damage as well, but whether or not it actually counts as Sneak Attack damage would be a very pertinent point if the character has the appropriate Rogue Talents... also worth noting whether it classifies as such for prereqs for feats and prestige classes. If nothing else, at least you can clearly benefit from both Trance and Maneuver in same round (keep Trance up for the attack roll, then use Maneuver once hit is confirmed).

- Brawling Path: what sort of action is it to use the Maneuver? If it's an Immediate or Free Action, that's certainly worth noting.

- Feral Warrior Path: clarification as previously mentioned: do you get the additional Wis-based damage when using the Maneuver?

- Mindknight Path: similar point as Feral Warrior, and also need to know whether you can make multiple attacks against a single opponent or max one per opponent per turn (is it like Full Attack or like Whirlwind Attack?).

- Weaponmaster Path: similar point as Feral Warrior.

As another point of clarification: can a PsyWar of 9th level or higher (thus, access to Way of the Warrior and a second Path) use EITHER Maneuver by expending Focus, or only the Maneuver tied to his current Trance? If he CAN pick from either Maneuver, does he make that choice when he gains Focus, or when he expends it?

Also: Path powers are known in ADDITION to the powers by level? My reading was that Path powers used up existing power slots. (In other words, does a 1st level PsyWar know one single power, or a 'regular' power and a second, Path power?)

It looks good! I like the different paths, however the Brawler's path looks like it could easily be abused. Taking a move action to gain focus, than dealing a lot of extra non-lethal damage, that can be devastating. As a friend of mine once said, in D&D unconscious is as good as dead. Personally I (and my character) love grappling, and an extra 4d6 damage is amazing; 14d6 at 20th level is a significant damage boost.

I can totally see a monk taking a one-level dip in psychic warrior for just this ability.

Wow, a lot of questions and responses - lovely!

It is our intention that yes, the Maneuver is in addition to any benefit from the Trance. We will have to state that, together with the fact that you can only be affected by the benefit of a single Maneuver at the same time.

Each Maneuver is tied to the Trance you are manifesting, so you get the maneuver of the trance you are using when expending psionic focus.

You get two additional powers, those of your path. At later levels, you can exchange which "bonus power" you get. Finally, your two chosen "path powers" have certain benefits (like being manifested without augmentation by expending focus) - these benefits only apply to chosen "path powers". If you have them on your Powers Known list is irrelevant, only the two path powers you have chosen are important.

Our intention is to provide "possible epic support" - we don't yet know how Pathfinder will handle Epic levels, but in case they follow something similar to earlier levels, you could use certain abilities more times at later levels.

It looks fantastic!

My one concern is that psychic warriors aren't very good at combat maneuvers. They don't need extra BAB, because they have powers and Trances that improve attack bonuses, but their CMB and CMD remain mediocre.

This is especially problematic for the Brawling path, who despite the large damage they can do, aren't actually very good at brawling unless he spends PP on grip of iron.

My suggestion is either to make the Psychic Warrior's CMB based on their class level, like a Monk, or to clarify that the various Trance bonuses apply to CMB and CMD as well as attacks and AC, respectively.

I respectfully disagree, why would a grappling psywar not use grip of iron? Using it´s PP is the advnatage it has over other martial classes, and not considering it when measuring it´s power is like saying that barbarians are weak unless they use their rage and therefore must me made stronger.
On top of that if I am not mystaken a grappling psywar can even manifest grip of iron without using it´s PP, and even by lvl 6 manifest it as part of an attack at any time without consuming even swift actions (there is even a feat on PFRPG companion which allows you to start a grapple after dealing dmage with a weapon so that´s just perect)..

He could, but he's ending up using a power to match one aspect of combat manoeuvres - he's still going to be down on the others. I think the idea of having the CMB based on level as the monk does is a good one. Like the monk it could kick in at higher level.

And using powers to improve their martial skills is their whole thing, not taking into consideration their power expendure when it comes to balancing them or measuring their effectivenes is a bad idea. Since as it stands a grappling psy war can jst spend their psionic focus to gain a +4 unnamed bonus to their check (for an amount of rounds) without spending an action, and more than overcomes the 2points of BAB that they will be behind other martial classes. Not saying that there is anything wrong with it, because that is their thing. And this version of the class incorporates that element perfectly.

Frerezar wrote:

And using powers to improve their martial skills is their whole thing, not taking into consideration their power expendure when it comes to balancing them or measuring their effectivenes is a bad idea. Since as it stands a grappling psy war can jst spend their psionic focus to gain a +4 unnamed bonus to their check (for an amount of rounds) without spending an action, and more than overcomes the 2points of BAB that they will be behind other martial classes. Not saying that there is anything wrong with it, because that is their thing. And this version of the class incorporates that element perfectly.

I take your points, but he'll be five points behind by level 20, and that doesn't address tripping, disarming etc.

However, let me suggest a compromise: there's a feat that allows you to add hit-dice rather than BAB to CMD. Let's create a similar one that allows you to add level rather than BAB to CMB while psionically focussed.

I see your point of how as levels increase overcoming the shortcomings will inevitably consume PP (after all grip can be augmented) when other classes don´t have to. And that does look good as a feat, I like it a lot.

BTW just a quick question, do you have any idea what would the interaction be between hustle and greater grapple? Would it allow for a move action pin in the round a grapple goes through?

I think the yardstick for the psychic warrior is that it should be worse at fighting than a fighting class without powers, but using powers should be able to be slightly better, if that makes sense.

Hadn't realized that a Beta was up. This does look really good. I'd love to take one for a spin, but I probably won't get a chance to really play around with it for a while. Thanks for giving us the additional path choices - I wasn't a huge fan of the original, shorter selection. I generally play psywars as enlightened warriors of a sort, and none of them really fit what I was looking for.