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Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 06:48 PM
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Here it is - the Alpha playtest release of the Advanced Psionic Races: Elan material.

This is no-frills, just the material for testing.

As with our other playtests, please feel free to give any and all feedback either directly in this thread, in another thread, or in a private message or email to me.



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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 09:45 PM
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Post Post subject: Re: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 09:50 PM
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Failed Transformation is amazing, but I really think the penalty when dealing with Elans should be -1, just so that they have a universal -1 penalty when dealing with everyone. Makes it easier that way.

Light Footed's bonus should scale with level rather than its duration. Eventually, it's just not going to really be worth it to remember a +2 bonus to perception and stealth. Also, temporary perception bonuses aren't good unless they're an immediate action in my opinion. Good if you're expecting something to look for, but I tend to use perception as a "look out for ambushes" skill.

Reconstruction just looks awful, I'd rather be able to prevent damage than give myself fast healing. In the end, I can either prevent a bunch of damage at once with Resistance AND keep my Resilience ability, or get "fast" healing that heals for the same amount of damage.

The monk favored class option should be reconsidered, since many monk archetypes get rid of still mind.

Also, been out of the loop for a while with regards to DSP. Is this book going to have psionic options for the "Build-A-Race" chapter of Advanced Race Guide?

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 02:20 AM
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Regarding the feat "Memories in the Mist", rather than a one day use on any skill, have the elan choose one skill upon taking the feat to which the bonus applies and make it usable once per day every 4 character levels.

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 09:49 AM
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I know that the +1 spells (or in this case powers) per level aspect of human favoured class bonuses is a bit wonky so I get why you're not following that for the Elan Wilder.

But 1/4 power per level with it still needing to be of a level lower than the highest you can manifest seems a bit off. If its going to be 1/4 per level it should be able to be of the highest level you can manifest.

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Post Post subject: Re: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 05:35 PM
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radionausea wrote:
I know that the +1 spells (or in this case powers) per level aspect of human favoured class bonuses is a bit wonky so I get why you're not following that for the Elan Wilder.

But 1/4 power per level with it still needing to be of a level lower than the highest you can manifest seems a bit off. If its going to be 1/4 per level it should be able to be of the highest level you can manifest.

one power level lower isn't as bad in psionics. depending on which one you pick, a level 1 power can fill in for what 3-4 higher level spells would do... or for that matter, can simply be good enough anyways when augmented. for example, vigor is quite worthwhile as a level 1 power even when you have access to level 2 powers. minor metamorphosis is a very nice 2nd level power even if you have access to third level powers. there are several very good third level powers to choose from. and so forth.

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:42 PM
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I'm really happy with the cavalier option giving the AC to the mount. I tend to look at my cavaliers as a familiar to the mount they ride. Clever critter, wild talent, and up the walls, lassie-smart spider horsies!

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 02:17 PM
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Psionic Exemplar (Psion)

1. "This effect can only be removed before its duration has expired by high level healing effects such as heal." How high is high level?

2. What happens with Body of Psionics if the Psion is immune to fatigue/exhaustion (i.e. five levels of Martial Artist Monk)?

Elan Garrote

1. Save feels a bit low. Plus, it's based off Str with an item that would probably be preferred by Dex-heavy classes like the Rogue and Cryptic. Still interesting, it just seems like it would rapidly become worthless as levels go up.


Past Proficiency

1. This seems...really strange. The only two classes I can think of that have a lot of feat prerequisites are Monks and Fighters - underpowered classes, to be sure, but also classes that don't need what little uniquness they have taken away. Think of Stunning Fist and friends / Weapon Specialization and friends. Its an interesting concept, but I can't think of any other ways to use it.

2. What happens if you take a level in that class after taking Past Proficiency? I.e. I am a level 9 Elan Barbarian. I take Past Proficiency (Fighter) so I now count as a level 4 fighter. At level 10, I take a level of Fighter. Do I now count as a level 5 Fighter?

Hidden Mind

1. Soooooo good for a Cryptic/stealth/party face. I feel like it has some interesting campaign potential for the DSP campaign setting Very Happy

Subsume Psicrystal

1. Is there a comparison point for something that makes your familiar untargetable? I feel like stuffing your psicrystal in a bag of holding works just as well. My own DMing style and the DMs I've played under have never really targeted familiars without good reason (i.e. It's grabbing the Sacred Amulet of Saint McGuffin). Would this work as a talent?

Metanexus

1. Psionic Infusion is awesome. Harness Ally as well. Collective Knowledge, too.

2. I feel like this is strictly better than what the Tactician gives up to get it. I'm not sure I'm opposed to that, I'm just making it known.

Menteur (Rogue)

1. Safe Exit is pretty awesome, the more I look at it. Silver Tongued and Undistinguished Features both feel a little uninspiring.

Pattern Wielder

1. Tap Tattoo feels like it needs some other limit - otherwise, it's essentialy a license to get a flurry of cheap tattoos and 20 free Empowers or Extends a day. Cool idea, though.

2. I really don't like Weaponise Tattoo and Hurl Tattoo. The ability to create masterwork weaponry quickly becomes irrelevant as one levels up, especially in comparison to trapfinding. I would prefer to see something transformational when giving up a class feature like trapfinding (i.e. the Brutal Disruptor, a melee-focused Cryptic). Weaponise Tattoo and Hurl Tattoo might make great Insights for a low level Cryptic; keep them on as that. Instead, how about something that feeds into Tap Tattoo? I'll post an idea later today.

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 02:57 PM
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Overall this is really good! Here are a few of my comments.

Alternate Racial Traits: 1)There should be a few more because so many of those listed were from PE.
2)Failed Transformation is too costly and basically defeats the purpose of being an elan.

Racial Archetypes: Metanexus is great but after reading it over twice it still seems that Harness Ally and Collective Knowledge do exactly the same thing.
Harness Ally expends psionic focus ; Collective Knowledge expends a use of strategy. That's the only difference.

Psionic Exemplar is perfect except that I think fatigue from Body of Psionics should be removable by normal means.

Feats: I like Past Proficiency but I think it should give one minor benefit when taken e.g. +1 to a class skill of the"past class" ( if not a class skill of any of your actual classes).

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 03:51 PM
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Quote::
Novawurmson wrote:
2. I really don't like Weaponise Tattoo and Hurl Tattoo. The ability to create masterwork weaponry quickly becomes irrelevant as one levels up, especially in comparison to trapfinding. I would prefer to see something transformational when giving up a class feature like trapfinding (i.e. the Brutal Disruptor, a melee-focused Cryptic). Weaponise Tattoo and Hurl Tattoo might make great Insights for a low level Cryptic; keep them on as that. Instead, how about something that feeds into Tap Tattoo? I'll post an idea later today.

It might be more intersting if you could channel your "disrupt pattern" damage through it.

Or allow the Pattern Wielder to use their Int modifier on attack rolls when
useing the Weaponise Tattoo ability.

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Post Post subject: Re: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 05:21 PM
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Robert wrote:
Quote::
Novawurmson wrote:
2. I really don't like Weaponise Tattoo and Hurl Tattoo. The ability to create masterwork weaponry quickly becomes irrelevant as one levels up, especially in comparison to trapfinding. I would prefer to see something transformational when giving up a class feature like trapfinding (i.e. the Brutal Disruptor, a melee-focused Cryptic). Weaponise Tattoo and Hurl Tattoo might make great Insights for a low level Cryptic; keep them on as that. Instead, how about something that feeds into Tap Tattoo? I'll post an idea later today.

It might be more intersting if you could channel your "disrupt pattern" damage through it.

Or allow the Pattern Wielder to use their Int modifier on attack rolls when
useing the Weaponise Tattoo ability.

Both of these are good, but I still wouldn't mind seeing them as Insights that affect Weaponize Tattoo.

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 05:55 PM
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Novawurmson wrote:
Quote::
Both of these are good, but I still wouldn't mind seeing them as Insights that affect Weaponize Tattoo.

Good point, I should have mentioned that.

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 06:20 PM
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Back to the Elan Cryptic. What do you think of this?

Quote::

Pattern Consumer

Tap Tattoo: A pattern consumer gains the ability to use psionic tattoos to alter his abilities. The pattern consumer can expend her psionic focus to tap a psionic tattoo she is wearing. Doing so locks out the tattoo so that it cannot be used for 24 hours after being tapped.

At 1st level, the pattern consumer can tap a tattoo as a swift action to gain an insight bonus on attack and damage rolls with her Disrupt Pattern ability equal to the manifester level of the tattoo. This ability lasts a number of rounds equal to her Int modifier.

At 4nd level, the pattern consumer can tap a tattoo as a free action to increase the bonus from her altered defense ability by 1 for a number of levels equal to her Int modifier. This ability does not stack with itself.

At 8th level, the pattern consumer can tap a tattoo as a free action when manifesting a cyptic power to treat the power as if it was affected by either the Empower Power or Extend Power feat.

This ability replaces the trapfinding and the insights gained at 4th and 8th level.

Eh, it's still not amazing, but I like the idea of turning tattoos into temporary resources to fuel class features. I'd like to tease it out a little more.

Edit: Apparently, there's no spoiler function on this forum? I'll just place my rant below.

Game design philosophy rant

[spoiler]

/rant

I prefer archetypes that are transformational - Qinggong Monk, Skirmisher Ranger, Vivisectionist Alchemist, Scarred Witch Doctor, Aberrant Aegis - archetypes that change major class features, stat weights, combat tactics, spellcasting/manifesting, etc.

Consider the Spy. What makes this a "Spy?" How often does James Bond use poison? How many thousands of spies have existed over the course of the earth's history that never had reason to touch poison, but rather engaged in espionage in hundreds of other vital ways (information gathering, coverting enemy spies, sabotaging production facilities, spreading dissent, finding allies behind enemy lines, feeding misinformation, etc.?). The minor bonus on bluff checks is neglible; in the end it amounts to SKill Focus (Bluff) + Deceitful at level 20 (and is strictly weaker than these feats at almost every level below 20). There is so little this archetype adds or changes about the Rogue class. This entire archetype could be replaced with a Rogue talent that grants poison use with little loss.

The Aberrant Aegis? It takes a class that's all about making your own armor and then removes the ability to make armor. In and of itself, that's a pretty big change. Then it gives you the ability to cover yourself in tentacles and spit poison. The mechanics still work admirably, but it gives players a completely new way to build a character (and several great ideas for creating a character a method of expression in game statistics).

/end rant
[/spoiler]

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 06:47 PM
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OK, I just posted all this into six separate threads to get some addition visibility to the different parts.

All feedback in this thread will be included in designing the Beta playtest document. Smile


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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 04:36 PM
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Here is one of my Alternate Racial ideas for an Elan.

Incarnate: You were born an Elan. You may have been mistaken for a Tiefling or Aasimar, but eventually your psionic heritage led you to discover your true heritage. It is believed that Incarnate Elans are the result of a form of Psionic Reincarnation used in the earliest forms of psionic experimentation and some believe that it may have been an the precursor to the ritual that is used today to create an Elan. It is also believed that Incarnate Elans have lived many past lives eventually leading to their rebirth as an Elan.

You have the option during character creation of trading out the Resistance, Resilience and/or Repletion abilities with alternate racial abilities.

Remembrance: You reach back into one of your past lives an remember a skill you once possessed. For 1 power point and refocusing your psionic focus, you gain 4 skill points in a skill you are not trained in and are now considered trained til you dismiss it or lose your psionic focus.

Revert: For 1 power point and refocusing your psionic focus, you conceal your Elan heritage and appear as a member of your parents race ( if you are multiracial chose one race when this ability is activated). Your appearance changes, as does your creature type and you lose access to your Elan racial abilities for the duration, but gain those of your new race. This lasts till you dismiss it or you lose psionic focus.

Reaper: Your past lives also mean past deaths and this has strengthened your resolve against death. For 1 power point, you gain a +4 bonus against Death Effects and Energy Drain Attacks. This bonus is activated as an Immediate action and it lasts til your next action.

Rearm: You remember being a warrior in one of your past lives. For 1 power point and refocusing your psionic focus, you gain proficiency in one weapon type (As per Fighter class, page 56 Core Rulebook). This skill lasts till you dismiss it or lose Psionic Focus.

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Post Post subject: Re: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 03:33 AM
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cool ideas, but i'm thinking that remembrance is probably mechanically too strong.

for one thing, 4 skill ranks is 4 levels now. way too good to have at level 1.

i'm also feeling revert is too much. to be able to choose between 3 different racial bonuses on a whim just feels like too much (particularly if you can muck around with different optional racial abilities each time, though that isn't specified and i still think it's a bit much if even if you only let them have the default or a specific pre-chosen set of racial abilities). just as an example of what kind of stunt you could pull with this, suppose you have human as one of your races. at any time, you could just choose to gain a bonus feat and full ranks in any skill you choose. consider the potential on, say... a character with 1 rogue level.

most of the time, keep perception at maxed (feel free to put in a skill focus too). then dismiss it when you find a trap, and put everything into disable device. then 5 minutes later when you need to, you can swap it out and replace it with use magic device, again with full ranks and skill focus, so that you can use a raise dead scroll on a cleric (obviously, that particular example involves a rather high level character, but you get the point i hope).

and in case that isn't enough, you can choose for your other parent to have been another race and have their entire set of racial bonuses available if you want. how much does it cost you? 1 burnt-out ioun stone every time. that's it. well, every time after the first per day, at least.

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Post Post subject: Re: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 01:12 AM
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Could there be a feat or racial abilities that can give us the right to use more power point than the manifester level.

I don't mean it like the wilder to over channel , but more for the use of Resilience, Resistance trait.

I think that there is great effort in the Fail Transformation but like someone said what s the point of making an Elan if you trade what's make one to something other races has. I prefer the Strong Blooded racial trait.

Could there be a feat that treat Normal feat like Psionic Feat when using psionic body?

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Post Post subject: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 01:55 AM
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Quote::
Could there be a feat or racial abilities that can give us the right to use more power point than the manifester level.

I don't mean it like the wilder to over channel , but more for the use of Resilience, Resistance trait.

This is already the case. An Elan without a manifesting class still can use these racial abilities using racially-granted power points, as well as any power points granted from Psionic Aptitude (favored class).

Quote::
Could there be a feat that treat Normal feat like Psionic Feat when using psionic body?

Uh, no. A character already receives one feat every other level, and many classes add bonus feats. A Fighter with that feat and Psionic Body would basically gain an automatic +2 hp/level... that's twice as powerful as the Toughness feat, and would stack with it to boot. Not to mention, it'd destroy the flavor of the Psionic Body feat. If you want extra hp via mundane means... just take Toughness? ;b

Although that does point out a good point - Psionic Body only adds 2 hp per psionic feat? I could've sworn we had made it 3 per, but I'd have to dig up the original conversation. RAW, Psionic Body is kinda dumb, because Toughness is automatically better (you automatically gain 1 hp/level, while Psionic Body makes you spend feats on psionic feats only to gain an effective 2 hp/2 levels = 1 hp/level). I think the main concern back then had been about front-loading - it was too easy to get a freaking ton of hit points early on with certain builds (such as PsyWar).

So, Psionic Body (frontloading aside) is currently about half as powerful as the Toughness feat. Rather than trying to double that (effectively granting you a total of 3 Toughness feats), I think it'd be better to use Psionic Body as a prereq for other feats with more unique applications.

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Post Post subject: Re: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 06:38 AM
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a bit of clarification on resilience: resilience is a supernatural ability, not a power. it doesn't have a manifester level, and you aren't limited in spending PP on it, because the limitation is for spending PP on powers specifically, not for anything else, last i checked.

as to psionic body: actually, it's got the potential to be better than regular toughness, but only for people with bonus feats who plan on choosing mostly or exclusively feats that will be psionic.

you get a feat at 1st, 2nd, and every 2 levels thereafter. so you're 1 point ahead of toughness there if you choose only psionic feats. then you've potentially got bonus feats; additionally, psionic races typically will give you psionic talent, which is a psionic feat. potentially 3 HP up at first level. then you get another feat at 2nd level, which is going to put you up 4 HP if you are a psionic race most likely.

at third level, you'll drop to +3 HP, but at 4th level you go right back to +4.

and then, consider class:

dread gets a bonus feat at levels 4, 9, 13, and 17
marksman gets a bonus feat at levels 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20
psion gets a bonus feat at levels 1, 5, 10, 15, 20
psychic warrior gets a bonus feat at levels 1, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20
soulknife potentially gets another psionic talent feat. and is or was also planned to get the ability to exchange a blade skill for a feat, which could be a psionic feat.
vitalist gets a bonus expanded knowledge feat (which is psionic) at levels 9 and 18.
wilder varies by surge bond... some get 1 psionic bonus feat. some do not. the healing surge bond gives 4, student's surge gives 5.

is it always the best choice to take psionic body over toughness? nope. but, sometimes it is. doesn't seem like the feat needs much improving to me. in most cases, you've even got some room for choosing non-psionic feats and have it still be better.

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Post Post subject: Re: Advanced Races - Elans Alpha
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 01:46 AM
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a bit of clarification on resilience: resilience is a supernatural ability, not a power. it doesn't have a manifester level, and you aren't limited in spending PP on it, because the limitation is for spending PP on powers specifically, not for anything else, last i checked.

Hey that one is a real surprise because i really thought that they were also limited. My Gm will be astonished when he'll find out.

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