yeah, until Kess can get medium range networking (think it's a level 7 ability, so it's a while off...) i expect he'll be doing a lot of relaying =S

so i'm fine with Kess passing on the information.

Nonlethal_Force wrote:

Jaid wrote: not sure how badly hurt shahab and maphid are, but i'm gonna go with channelling 5 to shahab and 8 to maphid. Works for me. Unleashed, Shahab is up 5 points.

Shahab is healed, praise the Kess!

Fenris ...

Jaid wrote:

so i'm fine with Kess passing on the information.

I thought that I would bring this piece to your attention. So, noting that if he spots the assassin he'll be 50 feet away ... does he move the whole way or just part? And just to move things along, he succeeded on the spot check. So he's got 50 feet between him and the assassin.

Nonlethal_Force wrote:

Fenris ... Jaid wrote: so i'm fine with Kess passing on the information. I thought that I would bring this piece to your attention. So, noting that if he spots the assassin he'll be 50 feet away ... does he move the whole way or just part? And just to move things along, he succeeded on the spot check. So he's got 50 feet between him and the assassin.

I saw this, but wasn't sure of the context. I will change his posted action.

But I do want to mention a thing. I won't call it a peeve, but Third Dawn is creepy to me. Both this fight and the fight back at camp, were SILENT. I mean we heard a bow string or two, and the back and forth between Kizzt and the leader of the assassins. But this one has thus far been silent but for the hissing of arrows. From an observers point of view it must seem odd. I realize that to the denizens it is normal, as it would be to any one who is deaf. But to hearing individuals, this would seem an erie, silent world in many ways. Not a complaint, nor am I advocating any kind o change, just making an observation.

Jaid wrote:

mind thrust (2d10, Will DC 11 for no damage)

don't forget the WIS contribution to the save DC:
10 (base) + 1 (power level)+ 3 (WIS) + 0 (1PP augmentation) = 14

=A=

Fenris wrote:

But I do want to mention a thing. I won't call it a peeve, but Third Dawn is creepy to me. Both this fight and the fight back at camp, were SILENT. I mean we heard a bow string or two, and the back and forth between Kizzt and the leader of the assassins. But this one has thus far been silent but for the hissing of arrows. From an observers point of view it must seem odd. I realize that to the denizens it is normal, as it would be to any one who is deaf. But to hearing individuals, this would seem an erie, silent world in many ways. Not a complaint, nor am I advocating any kind o change, just making an observation.

I should probably call this out more in the cultursal and racial descriptions in the later books. Especially the Chimairans find the world disturbing - so many telepaths make for silent communities.

Asurya wrote:

Jaid wrote: mind thrust (2d10, Will DC 11 for no damage) don't forget the WIS contribution to the save DC: 10 (base) + 1 (power level)+ 3 (WIS) + 0 (1PP augmentation) = 14 =A=

current official ruling (for our game) is that it's the psicrystal's intelligence that determines the DC.

wait, it's your psicrystal who shoots?!
in that case, sorry, I was totally wrong (well the formula is good, just the value which are not what they should be)

But then how did you manage to augment the power (from 1d10 to 2d10)?

=A=

Fenris wrote:

Both this fight and the fight back at camp, were SILENT. I mean we heard a bow string or two, and the back and forth between Kizzt and the leader of the assassins. But this one has thus far been silent but for the hissing of arrows. From an observers point of view it must seem odd. I realize that to the denizens it is normal, as it would be to any one who is deaf. But to hearing individuals, this would seem an erie, silent world in many ways. Not a complaint, nor am I advocating any kind o change, just making an observation.

I hear what you are saying. However, in my experiencewith both live games and PbPs ... players don't typically post much conversation in combat unless it's a call for help. We get into combat and it's "post action" mode. So I've noticed this in almost all the games that I've played - especially PbPs.

Fenris, sorry for the IC jab at your "noiseless" post. I just found it amusing to note that I didn't read the IC thread until after I read the OOC thread (I always read the OOC thread first). So after hearing your discussion about noiseless combat I go and find a noiseless Finn charging the enemy! Having poked fun at you, though, I do agree with your overall post. I thin in general DMs and players alike can do much more in making combat more interesting.

Asurya wrote:

wait, it's your psicrystal who shoots?! in that case, sorry, I was totally wrong (well the formula is good, just the value which are not what they should be) But then how did you manage to augment the power (from 1d10 to 2d10)? =A=

It's more like it's the crystal that has access to the power. If you look at Kess' Character Sheet, you'll see that Kess doesn't typically have access to Mind Thrust. However, the psicrystal does. So that's why.

@NLF: ... I fear I don't follow your train of thought: are you saying that the awaken psicrystal's master can manifest one of the power as if he knew it (therefore enabling him to augment it)? but then why use the DC of the psicrystal?

As I see it, there is a problem either way:
1/ Kess manifests: augment OK but DC calculation wrong (also Mind thrust is indeed not available to Society minds)
2/ psicrystal manifests: augment impossible, but DC OK (and legit as per awaken specialty taken)

Did I explain myself better?

=A=

the psicrystal is manifesting the power (using my action), and is effectively a level 5 psicrystal (because that's my ML and that's the ruling that NLF made is that my psicrystal's effective level is equal to my personal ML).

since it's effective level is 5, half it's effective level is 2.5, rounds down to 2, equalling an ML of 2. because it is a psi-like ability, it is automatically augmented, thus bumping it up to 2d10 damage (but not enough yet for a DC boost)

thus, the psicrystal's mind thrust deals 2d10 damage and has a save DC of 11. if i boost my ML one level more, it will be doing 3d10 and have a save DC of 12

OK NLF,
I finally have a bit of time and downloaded the charcater sheet you made. I figured I qwould give you a Luddite's perspecitve on it

Looked great and started filing it out, pretty intuitive.

I did notice a few things that either I am not doing right on my "Paper" sheet you reviewed or am doing wrong in the calculator, or the system is weird.

My skills are off fo some reason. I typed in the ranks, they tabluate right. I put in my Int and typed Yes I was a human. But I have a skil rating of 27 what ever that means, and I spent 11 XP. On my sheet have 279 XP for the same ranks of skills.

Progression Variable Abilities. When I type in the Progression Variable ability it comes up with an XP cost of 225. Not 180. Now when I put in 1 progression it does read 270 which is correct.

Lastly Feats. If I do not have the free feat at first level checked, it tabules the feats correctlty. (100+160+680+1200+1720 ). But I do get a free feat. When I put yes i that box it skips the 160 level and I get (0+100+680+1200+1720).

I will finish getting things in there, but those are some things I noticed.

Jaid wrote:

because it is a psi-like ability, it is automatically augmented

that's the rule I did not know.
Fine with me now.

=A=

Fenris wrote:

But I do want to mention a thing. I won't call it a peeve, but Third Dawn is creepy to me. Both this fight and the fight back at camp, were SILENT. I mean we heard a bow string or two, and the back and forth between Kizzt and the leader of the assassins. But this one has thus far been silent but for the hissing of arrows. From an observers point of view it must seem odd. I realize that to the denizens it is normal, as it would be to any one who is deaf. But to hearing individuals, this would seem an erie, silent world in many ways. Not a complaint, nor am I advocating any kind o change, just making an observation.

Well, observers would likely have heard little more out of Shahab during either combat than they have so far, but then that's part of who he is as a hunter. At most he would have said something quietly to Maphid during this combat, without Kess' network, but otherwise he would have been silent. After all, he's hunting wascally assassins, hehehehehehe.

Fenris wrote:

Looked great and started filing it out, pretty intuitive.

Thanks. I'll look into your list below. Also, you ave earned Finn 100 XP able to be spent whenever.

Fenris wrote:

My skills are off fo some reason. I typed in the ranks, they tabluate right. I put in my Int and typed Yes I was a human. But I have a skil rating of 27 what ever that means, and I spent 11 XP. On my sheet have 279 XP for the same ranks of skills.

Okay, did you actually type in the skill rank value or did you fill all the boxes with 1's. If your skill rating is 27, then you should type in "27" in each box on the chart where you want to buy a rank. The box at the top of the columns (just below the skill name) will tabulate all the ranks for you. If you did this correctly and it still isn't giving you the right answer ... then I'll have to actually look at the sheet.

The reason you type in your actual Skill Rating is because character's INT changes. As their INT goe up, their Skill Rating goes down. As their Skill Rating goes down, so does the cost of buying skills. So, to have a table be able to reflect the fact that a character's INT can change, you actually need to type in the Skill Rating in the boxes, not just "1"

When I do Finn, if I just type in 1 in each box I do get 11. So my guess is that is your problem. Please note the hint in the first yellow box underneath "Autohypnosis." On second thought, I might make that hint appear under each skill.

Fenris wrote:

Progression Variable Abilities. When I type in the Progression Variable ability it comes up with an XP cost of 225. Not 180. Now when I put in 1 progression it does read 270 which is correct.

I'm not sure if you are telling me you figured it out or not. But since you have the right price, I'll assume you figured it out.

Fenris wrote:

Lastly Feats. If I do not have the free feat at first level checked, it tabules the feats correctlty. (100+160+680+1200+1720 ). But I do get a free feat. When I put yes i that box it skips the 160 level and I get (0+100+680+1200+1720).

Excellent catch, sir! I discovered the error. In the first COUNTA formula there is an erraneous comma at the end before the parenthesis. This is causing the counting process to come up with a total of one more than it should. Rest assured, I have fixed it in version 1.5. {Which is now posted on the next page of the thread.

Nonlethal_Force wrote:

Thanks. I'll look into your list below. Also, you ave earned Finn 100 XP able to be spent whenever.

Cool, thanks.

Nonlethal_Force wrote:

Okay, did you actually type in the skill rank value or did you fill all the boxes with 1's. If your skill rating is 27, then you should type in "27" in each box on the chart where you want to buy a rank. The box at the top of the columns (just below the skill name) will tabulate all the ranks for you. If you did this correctly and it still isn't giving you the right answer ... then I'll have to actually look at the sheet. The reason you type in your actual Skill Rating is because character's INT changes. As their INT goe up, their Skill Rating goes down. As their Skill Rating goes down, so does the cost of buying skills. So, to have a table be able to reflect the fact that a character's INT can change, you actually need to type in the Skill Rating in the boxes, not just "1" When I do Finn, if I just type in 1 in each box I do get 11. So my guess is that is your problem. Please note the hint in the first yellow box underneath "Autohypnosis." On second thought, I might make that hint appear under each skill.

Yeap that was the problem. Had I moused over the red tab I may have caught that better. That solved the problem.

Nonlethal_Force wrote:

Fenris wrote: Progression Variable Abilities. When I type in the Progression Variable ability it comes up with an XP cost of 225. Not 180. Now when I put in 1 progression it does read 270 which is correct. I'm not sure if you are telling me you figured it out or not. But since you have the right price, I'll assume you figured it out.

Well the end result is right. But the numbers to get there are wonky. So I don't know if you need to fix them other can anal complusion.

But when I enter my variable progession abilities, without a progression, just the buy in, the XP chart reads 225 XP rather than the 180 that CC lists. Now, yes, when I put in the progressions they appear (at least through 3 progressions) to be right. But if you bought just access, without a progression, it would be wrong.

Nonlethal_Force wrote:

Fenris wrote: Lastly Feats. If I do not have the free feat at first level checked, it tabules the feats correctlty. (100+160+680+1200+1720 ). But I do get a free feat. When I put yes i that box it skips the 160 level and I get (0+100+680+1200+1720). Excellent catch, sir! I discovered the error. In the first COUNTA formula there is an erraneous comma at the end before the parenthesis. This is causing the counting process to come up with a total of one more than it should. Rest assured, I have fixed it in version 1.5. I will update that version here so that the feat aspect is fixed.

Glad I could help. Since I probably hit upon it as a fluke, I am sure a few more may pop up as we level.

Fenris wrote:

Well the end result is right. But the numbers to get there are wonky. So I don't know if you need to fix them other can anal complusion.

Yeah, unfortunately that is a problem with the blank space. If you put a zero in the blank space, I think it actually works out okay.

Fenris wrote:

Glad I could help. Since I probably hit upon it as a fluke, I am sure a few more may pop up as we level.

Well, version 1.5 sports a change to all the feat's equations, so that problem won't come back to bite us. But you're right ... problems are best discovered through playtesting! That's why I'm handing out XP for those willing to do so.

unleashed wrote:

After all, he's hunting wascally assassins, hehehehehehe.

And this made me laugh out loud!

Nonlethal_Force wrote:

Fenris wrote: Well the end result is right. But the numbers to get there are wonky. So I don't know if you need to fix them other can anal complusion. Yeah, unfortunately that is a problem with the blank space. If you put a zero in the blank space, I think it actually works out okay. Fenris wrote: Glad I could help. Since I probably hit upon it as a fluke, I am sure a few more may pop up as we level. Well, version 1.5 sports a change to all the feat's equations, so that problem won't come back to bite us. But you're right ... problems are best discovered through playtesting! That's why I'm handing out XP for those willing to do so.

Well, that worked. After a few tweaks it looks good. I mean you still have to know what the abilities are. I needed to have CC open as I did the sheet, but yes if I were making a new charcater this would help. And even leveling Finn, this will be a help.

Now my skills were off a little. 8 points. I calculated 279 initially, the sheet came up with 271. Which I think is just rounding error between us.

Oh and you were right, the zero took care of the progression variable issue.