Hey NLF,
is there way to replicate the Warblade getting fighter feats as if they were fighters of two levels less? or is that useless under CC rules

fighter levels (for the purposes of taking feats) and bonus feats (well... technically not bonus i guess =S) are both available to be purchased iirc. what more do you need?

LMS - you start buying access to Fighter feats at third "level" and voila!

Jaid and A_a have the right of it. If you want to mimic the warblade feature, then you say to yourself that "I should only buy access to fighter feats two levels less than my character level." A 5th level character need only buy access to fighter feats up to 3rd level. [Note: Access to Fighter Feats is a Level-Variable ability as defined by CC] An eleventh level character would buy access to fighter feats up to 9th level. You can buy those levels all at once (if you have the XP to spend, of course) or progressively as A_a hinted. You buy access to level 1 at third level, access to level 2 at 4th level, access to level 3 at fifth level, etc. It's that simple! [And that's the beauty of the system! ]

How well do you think CC would work with published adventures? Can one use both without any modifications?

Lordmonkeysama wrote:

How well do you think CC would work with published adventures? Can one use both without any modifications?

Depends on the charcters created. It should work fairly well, but I wouldn't be surprised if the CC characters overcome the challenges slightly more easily. This is because the characters are designed to fill a specific design goal.

But ... all things being equal a DM should be able to use standard adventures with minimal (or no) adjustment. Of course, if the DM wants, they can go through and redesign the adversaries using CC. Then the adventure should work absolutely perfect (and realistically challenge the party even more!). But this should not be necessary.

something i was thinking about:
if one wanted Fighter feats up to level 20, would you have to buy them every few levels or could you, upon reaching level 20, buy them all at once, priced out as buying a level 20 ability?

I'll take a shot at this: You can buy them at any stage, but you have to pay for them as high as you want it. However, access to Fighter feats does not give you feats, only access. So you'd have to buy the feats separately.

I'm asking because Assim could benefit from the Weapon Focus tree, but I don't know if i want him having to buy them early on as opposed to later in "levels"

Doesn't matter, if you want it late, buy it late. It's as easy as that.

Was the idea to do non-open game stuff through forums? Cause I like to know the cost of Bo9S maneuvers and the levels of it. Basic class abilities are easy to convert, but maneuver system is as complicated as spells if not worse (Level of maneuver, number of maneuvers, the refreshing method, the known maneuvers and the readied maneuvers, the number of stances. Ok, so it is worse then a magic system )

well, here's a quick guess:

being a maneuverer-type-person is going to be a level variable ability. it will start at level 1. when you buy the ability to maneuver, you buy it as a specific class - warblade, swordsage, etc.

then, you buy access to levels of maneuvers. this will most likely use the same table as buying access to psionic power levels, at a guess.

from there, you just figure out how much xp is unspent and hammer that into a table that roughly follows the same scale as a spellcaster's spells cost, i would think ^^

NLF's idea is to release non-open book information as Web Enhancements/Articles here and he's doing a pretty nice job out of it. Bo9S will surely be on his list and when he sees people mentioning it, he might get more interested.

But Jaid has got the basics down - it's level access + level-variable ability. The only real question would ofcourse be stances and number of maneuvers.

Angellis_ater wrote:

I'll take a shot at this: You can buy them at any stage, but you have to pay for them as high as you want it. However, access to Fighter feats does not give you feats, only access. So you'd have to buy the feats separately.

Exactly correct! You can buy access whenever you want it. In fact, this is precisely the reason why I included a cumulative portion to the tables in the Quick reference guide (Document page 76). If you are a 15th level character and you want to buy access to fighter feats all at once up to the 16th level you would pay 3,645 XP.

It's also important to realize that this simply qualifies you for feats with "Fighter level X" in the prereqs. You never gain free feats in Complete Control.

Jaid wrote:

being a maneuverer-type-person is going to be a level variable ability. it will start at level 1. when you buy the ability to maneuver, you buy it as a specific class - warblade, swordsage, etc. then, you buy access to levels of maneuvers. this will most likely use the same table as buying access to psionic power levels, at a guess. from there, you just figure out how much xp is unspent and hammer that into a table that roughly follows the same scale as a spellcaster's spells cost, i would think ^^

Nice idea. As A_a suggests, interest in particular works will encourage me to work it through more quickly. Maybe I'll try and get to it this weekend - although I make no promises.

I put my name on the "want ToB pricing method" list too! I think more and more to convert my current group to CC and 2 out of 5 players are straight ToB characters.

also, 10/ (I think I'm good on the count of the various Q&A between LMS last numbered one and mine) What governs Psicrystal abilities under CC?
is it:
- ML,
- equivalent character level (from your XP total, initial bonus not included),
- or another level-variable ability?

10.1/ if this is ML what happens if somebody has (to take your example) bought both Psion8 and SocietyMind10?
is it:
- 10 (the max),
- or 12 (885 (L8) + 1395 (L10) = 2280 and 2025 (L12) < 2280 < 2385 (L13))?

Asurya wrote:

10/ What governs Psicrystal abilities under CC? is it: - ML, - equivalent character level (from your XP total, initial bonus not included), - or another level-variable ability? 10.1/ if this is ML what happens if somebody has (to take your example) bought both Psion8 and SocietyMind10? is it: - 10 (the max), - or 12 (885 (L8) + 1395 (L10) = 2280 and 2025 (L12) < 2280 < 2385 (L13))?

Wow. Awesome question. I have answered this question three times and deleted them all. Most of it was because I was trying to answer them seperately and I didn't like how it was coming out. But. Let me try and answer them jointly. I think I'll like this answer much better.

To cover all the bases, here's what I do. If there is one manifester level, then manifester level is what you use. That's the easy case. If there are more than one manifesting abilities it gets a bit complicated. But to answer it fairly for all I say that the psicrystal's level is equal to:

1. Always at least the character's highest manifester level. In addition,


2. levels from othe manifesting abilities may be added to increase the psicrystal ability until it reaches character level. The only way that psyicrystal levels can be increased above character level is if the character has a single manifester level greater than their character level.

So, here's what that does. Single-ability manifesters never have a problem with this ruling because it is a direct equivalent to what happens in a standard game. Multiple-ability manifesters also tend to appreciate this ruling in fairness as well.

Say a 10th level character has purchased manifester level 6 in two abilities.

1. To say that their psicrystal is 6th level would weaken the ability horribly and cripple the player, which is not the point of CC.


2. To say that it was 12th level would make the single manifesting psionic character with a psicrystal feel cheated because they have put far more XP into their manifester levels.


3. To add up the individual XP expenditures is probably the most mathematically fair approach but it means even more calculations in an already math-dense system. Groups that use spreadsheets or groups that really like math are welcome to use this approach, but it is not the one I recommend for most groups.


4. By allowing it to be capped at character level (unless one class exceeds character level) means that the psicrystal is capable of being game-balance appropriate in level but it also eliminates characters from jacking up their psicrystal ability by purchasing multiple manifesting levels for 45 XP for the first one.

Having listed that out, sometimes the question gets asked, "What about a 7th level character who manifests in one ability at 8th level and another ability at 3rd level?" Should they be reduced to 7th level, which is their character level? In this case, the answer is no. They would get 8th level psicrystal abilities and their 3rd level manifesting would be swallowed up and made useless by the capping system. That may seem harsh, but the reality is that the character's psicrystal ability is already going to be more powerful than anticipated by the game. And those three levels of manifesting really didn't cost the character all that much, anyway.

If we're looking for official errata for CC, this ruling might be a good one to include.

Couple of questions: in book of 9 swords your Initiator level is epual to whatever class u have that grants maneuvers plus half of your other class levels. Im not sure if this is rendered pointless with CC, but if not how would u suggest replicating it? Also while i know ur not a fan of Epic NLF many are and im wondering how easy it would be to continue to use CC on past level twenty. Being thats it math based my guess is that it shouldnt be too hard.

My one suggestion for CC going past epic is to grant BAB and save bonuses at the XP level one would normally gain such. I say this because once u go past level twenty, u gain said bonuses automatically, irrespective of your class. One could still buy extra pluses to these stats like normal, which i dont think would mess things up.

hmmm... one thing about psicrystals: psionic classes are counted towards psicrystal effectiveness. for example, soulknife or enlightened monk should count, i would think.

so presumably there should be some specific (ideally level-dependant) ability that can be used for those classes to improve their psicrystal also.

on a side note, i think this means my psicrystal's stats are gonna be a bit different =S
[edit] oh, neat, i apparently have telepathy 30 feet now with anyone i feel like, don't even need to network 0.o

guess i'll hold off on using it until both my character sheet is finalised and the rules for psicrystals are finalised =P [/edit]