It gets a blade formed from psionic energy though...

@Maverick - Sorry, I should have been more specific and point out that you could have a +3/+6 worth of specials at 18th level.

Angellis_ater wrote:

@Maverick - Sorry, I should have been more specific and point out that you could have a +3/+6 worth of specials at 18th level.

Ah, yes, I see. Technically they can have a +1/+6 at 15th. The level x3 requirement applies to individual abilities, not the totals. For instance, you can have a +1 enhancement/+5 special abilities weapon at 13th level, but you cannot have CDG as an ability, because it is an effective +5 bonus by itself, meaning it requires 15th level to apply to your blade. I believe the updated tables will make everything far more clear.

The soulknife table will have a column denoting the maximum enhancement bonus, and the special abilities table will have an extra column denoting the required soulknife level to add that ability.

wraith428 wrote:

Just read over the Alpha release. Does anyone find it funny that the psionic class soulknife doesn't get any psionic bonus feats? Wraith428

Part of the reason for this is that the Feats hasn't been really looked at yet much, so I didn't want to add any that might change. The other reason is I wanted their bonus feats to be something they can use all the time, since they have abilities that expend their psionic focus, meaning the psionic feats just make one more set of abilities they have to plan their psionic focus around.

Honestly, I feel that people would be less upset with the Soulknife's standard enhancement if Paizo hadn't gone and messed with DR the way they did. It's definitely one of those things I'll be ignoring when I run a game - I like my DR/Silver to be more meaningful than Paizo does, apparently.

Disciple-of-Sakura wrote:

Honestly, I feel that people would be less upset with the Soulknife's standard enhancement if Paizo hadn't gone and messed with DR the way they did. It's definitely one of those things I'll be ignoring when I run a game - I like my DR/Silver to be more meaningful than Paizo does, apparently.

Here, here!

Disciple-of-Sakura wrote:

Honestly, I feel that people would be less upset with the Soulknife's standard enhancement if Paizo hadn't gone and messed with DR the way they did. It's definitely one of those things I'll be ignoring when I run a game - I like my DR/Silver to be more meaningful than Paizo does, apparently.

I think you're right, but I'm split on the whole DR thing. Frankly, I'm not fond of DR period. It takes damage away from the guys who deal less to begin with, since mages don't care about DR in the least. And part of me likes the PF changes, just because it means I don't need to carry a golf bag for a scabbard just to handle all the DR types I'm going to run into.

just had a thought: How would you all feel about adding a Blade Skill that allows you to take a combat feat?.

first, there is precedence via the Rogue's Talents(think that's their name, lol). and secondly it would allow a player the option of being able to pick up an extra feat that he might not be able to grab otherwise. Granted, there is plenty of feat slots now, but oft times one is stuck at a certain level needing/wanting an extra feat and this will allow them that.

Just wanted to drop in and say I like the over all direction of the Pathfinder Soulblade. Always liked the BlainTog/Untapped Potential Soulblade. Most of the question/problems I had with the Alpha have already been mentioned, but I do have a few notes.

1) Bonus Feats (Blade Skills): It's not clear to me whether this option includes the Weapon Specific Feats (Weapon Focus/Improved Critical). Additionally the Form Focus Tag should be [All] not [Varies].

2)Damage Reduction (Blade Skills): Needs claritication on activation. I assume that it takes a move action just like psychic strike.

3)On the Run (Blade Skills): Is classified as a Skirmisher skill, but the Prereq is a Striker Skill.

4)Full Enhancement (Blade Skills): Does this skill count toward the three defender skill requirement?

Personally I think the Full Enhancement Skill is a little on the strong side. If I were a skirmisher I would be extreamly tempted to take Mind Armor, Full Enhancement, and Trade Blows. This would give me Two Weapons and Armor at Maxed Enhancement.

5)Mind Armor (Blade Skills): I don't see any need to have three seperate skills for this ability. I would make all these abilities into just one skill, but with the option of forming three different types of armor.

Alternatively you could just make light and medium into one skill (since those are the only armor that are on the Soulknife class list). Breastplates and Chainshirts already have built in balancing factors. One can take a Breastplate for the higher AC, but then he has lesser Speed and a higher Armor check penalty. To put it in percpective a chainshirts costs 100gd while a breastplate costs 200gd.

6)Trade Blows (Blade Skills): I'm not clear how this ability works. If an attacker hit the soulknife dealing 10 damage does A or B happen?

A) Soulknife takes 10 damage and attacker takes 5 damage
B) Soulknife takes 5 damage and attacker takes 5 damage

Additionally I would limit this ability to melee attacks.

7)Reach (Blade Skill): I would tag this as [Striker/Defender].

Have you concedered adding some Defender Blade Skills that enable Soulknifes to do more that just increase their survivabilty? Like maybe an ability that allows you do reduce a foes movement by 5ft per psychic strike damage die instead of doing extra damage. Another idea is a blade skill that allow you to expend your focus to attack a foe a that attacks an ally.

Thanks for your time and I hope my comments help.

Cooperflood wrote:

1) Bonus Feats (Blade Skills): It's not clear to me whether this option includes the Weapon Specific Feats (Weapon Focus/Improved Critical). Additionally the Form Focus Tag should be [All] not [Varies].

No, the weapon specific feats are not available. Only the feats that are specific to your form focus. And the descriptor thing has been fixed for the beta, but good catch.

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2)Damage Reduction (Blade Skills): Needs claritication on activation. I assume that it takes a move action just like psychic strike.

Move action indeed. That will get added.

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3)On the Run (Blade Skills): Is classified as a Skirmisher skill, but the Prereq is a Striker Skill.

I'll take a look at that when I'm home later. I think I may've caught and changed that, but I'm not certain.

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4)Full Enhancement (Blade Skills): Does this skill count toward the three defender skill requirement? Personally I think the Full Enhancement Skill is a little on the strong side. If I were a skirmisher I would be extreamly tempted to take Mind Armor, Full Enhancement, and Trade Blows. This would give me Two Weapons and Armor at Maxed Enhancement.

Tempted, but not guaranteed. That says our balance is just about right. I believe my initial intention was to have it not count, but I've come up with a secondary idea that makes the multi-descriptor abilities function like ALL if you have the matching form focus (and making you pick one if you don't).

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5)Mind Armor (Blade Skills): I don't see any need to have three seperate skills for this ability. I would make all these abilities into just one skill, but with the option of forming three different types of armor. Alternatively you could just make light and medium into one skill (since those are the only armor that are on the Soulknife class list). Breastplates and Chainshirts already have built in balancing factors. One can take a Breastplate for the higher AC, but then he has lesser Speed and a higher Armor check penalty. To put it in percpective a chainshirts costs 100gd while a breastplate costs 200gd.

Versatility equates to power, and giving them free armor to go with their swords and shields is a big enough deal as is, without them getting two different armors without spending it.

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6)Trade Blows (Blade Skills): I'm not clear how this ability works. If an attacker hit the soulknife dealing 10 damage does A or B happen? A) Soulknife takes 10 damage and attacker takes 5 damage B) Soulknife takes 5 damage and attacker takes 5 damage Additionally I would limit this ability to melee attacks.

Option A, sir. And the intention was indeed melee attacks, so I'll be changing that.

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7)Reach (Blade Skill): I would tag this as [Striker/Defender].

This has been modified slightly for the beta, and the dual descriptor won't work.

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Have you concedered adding some Defender Blade Skills that enable Soulknifes to do more that just increase their survivabilty? Like maybe an ability that allows you do reduce a foes movement by 5ft per psychic strike damage die instead of doing extra damage. Another idea is a blade skill that allow you to expend your focus to attack a foe a that attacks an ally. Thanks for your time and I hope my comments help.

The focus for the defender has always been itself throughout the write-up, and I would not feel comfortable changing that, as I feel the Fighter tank would become irrelevant if the sk defender got unique save someone's else's skin abilities. While the sk should be able to replace a fighter in the party, it should not be the default option based on superiority. That said, maybe as actual feats, those abilities may not be bad, but I don't like them as additional class features.

Your comments are certainly appreciated, and I will take a look at some of the things discussed when I'm home and not posting from my phone.

I'm not sure if it's a spell, feat or some sort of class feature, but i recall something that allows you to instantly switch places with an ally. maybe a SK defender could get this as a Psionic ability that would let him swap to take a hit? perhaps it could cost the Psi Focus or even PPs.

Also, not sure if it was missed, but anybody have thoughts on my above post regarding a Blade Skill that lets you take a combat feat??

Phil - I edited your post - one of your tags was broken and made the thread crazy

Lordmonkeysama wrote:

I'm not sure if it's a spell, feat or some sort of class feature, but i recall something that allows you to instantly switch places with an ally. maybe a SK defender could get this as a Psionic ability that would let him swap to take a hit? perhaps it could cost the Psi Focus or even PPs.

That's a Level 2 power called Dimension Swap.

and a spell called benigh transposition. also see baleful transposition

Sheng_Gradilla wrote:

Lordmonkeysama wrote: I'm not sure if it's a spell, feat or some sort of class feature, but i recall something that allows you to instantly switch places with an ally. maybe a SK defender could get this as a Psionic ability that would let him swap to take a hit? perhaps it could cost the Psi Focus or even PPs. That's a Level 2 power called Dimension Swap.

It's also a soul bastion ability. That said, my earlier post stands. The SK defender is designed around keeping itself alive, not saving everyone else. And I'd prefer to avoid handing out combat feats as a Blade Skill, other than their Form Focus specific feats. Too much fighter going on doing that.

MaverickWolf wrote:

Versatility equates to power, and giving them free armor to go with their swords and shields is a big enough deal as is, without them getting two different armors without spending it.

I agree that versatility equals power, but in this case it's just versatility for the class not the player. I don't think your going to find more than 1 in a 100 soulknife actually using Medium armor in one encounter, but light in the next. Still if your worried about the versatility an alterative fix is to just drop the prereqs, that way those Soulknifes that want to wear Medium Armor can actually use this ability.

Earlier I said I would be "tempted" to build a skirmisher around Full Enhancement, what I should have said was that it was easily the most powerful option. However it was also boring. Most of the Striker/Skrimisher Blade Skills are very interesting and flavorful, doing exactly what I think a Soulknife should be doing. But the ability to have three magic items maxed out is just too strong, thus the "temptation".

I spent a number of hours building a variety of level 7 soulknifes (I normally play in the 4-10 lvl range) and every time I kept coming back to Full Enhancement. At level 7 the expected wealth is 23,500 gd, but the value of two +3 swords and a +3 armor is 45,000 gd. If your doing a pure defender build the value increases to 80,000 gd for two +4 swords and +4 armor. This is just not an ability very many DMs are going to allow in the game and as a result is will decrease the validity of the entire class in many peoples eyes.

Just as a note, the only class in Pathfinder that has abilities that allow them to defend others is the duelist. In D&D 4 terms, the Pathfinder fighter would be a striker.
Without offensive abilities, a high AC is rather useless. The same goes probably for Trade Blows. A defender who only defends himself is rather useless.
So, how about a defender blade skill that grants the soulknife attacks of opportunity against enemies that attack targets beside him?

jadeite wrote:

Just as a note, the only class in Pathfinder that has abilities that allow them to defend others is the duelist. In D&D 4 terms, the Pathfinder fighter would be a striker. Without offensive abilities, a high AC is rather useless. The same goes probably for Trade Blows. A defender who only defends himself is rather useless. So, how about a defender blade skill that grants the soulknife attacks of opportunity against enemies that attack targets beside him?

The defender isn't lacking in offensive abilities to begin with. He may not have as many outright powerful abilities as the others, but he's not losing psychic strike or knife to the soul, and he still gets feat to shield bash rather effectively. As far as I'm concerned, his blade skills should be focused on the defensive.

Maverick,
if your worried about the SK stepping on the fighter's toes with gaining a Combat feat via a Blade Skill, do you then disallow a Rogue to do the same via their Talents?

as i said in my original post on this subject, the precedence is already there thanks to the rogue, who is decidedly un-fighter like. However, the SK is more akin to a fighter and he'd have to give up one of only 7 Blade Skills to get said combat feat, so its not like a power boost nor does it apply to every SK, just those that actually want an extra feat.

Also, all prereqs would have to be met, so it's not a freebie ala the Ranger feats.

Lordmonkeysama wrote:

as i said in my original post on this subject, the precedence is already there thanks to the rogue, who is decidedly un-fighter like.

Exactly my point. The rogue is not going to step on the fighter's toes, because they're in entirely different roles. A rogue cannot replace a fighter. A soulknife can, which means that there has to be reasons to choose a fighter over a soulknife (and vice versa, of course).